"Remember, as far as anyone knows, we're a nice normal family." - Homer Simpson

Street Signs





Street Traffic


Campaign Analysts

Media Sources

Multimedia Powers

Progressive Sources

Debate Forums

Blog Compilers

Search Tools



Street Regulars

Regarding Members
Of Our Team Effort


Current members are listed above. But many contributed before, some now blogging giants and some who blog no more.

Asterisks* throughout the sidebars denote the full roster of our talented team, past and present.

In the category below are those whose blogs are defunct, or blog extremely rarely, or who never had their own blog at all.

But it is a partial list, as all other past members are categorized by region, topic or both, elsewhere in these sidebars.

Previous Members

Community Blogs

NY-DC Power Corridor

Northeast Patriots

Middle Movers

Western Pioneers

Southern Progress

Election Specialists

Mass Media News And Critique

Technical & Design For Our Website

Geo Visitors Map

Side Streets




Donate via PayPal
Your support keeps us
going and we thank you
for your generosity.

******************

A Liberal Network


The Economy

Today's Bush Tax


Energy Sense

The Middle East

Global Outlook

Foe Fighters

Wits & Giggles

Legal Experts

Human Equality

Cultural Literacy

Left, Actually

Science & Health

Environmentalists

Educating Well

Belief & Philosophy




November 20, 2005

Naturals and Unnaturals

I think we’ve been dividing the world along the wrong axes. It’s normal for us to dichotomize our interactions along simple, one-dimensional lines—liberal-conservative, men-women, atheist-theist—and while that is a useful way to categorize (as long as we don’t get so committed to the extremes that we fail to recognize them as continua), I fear that we’ve neglected to notice one dimension that is extremely relevant to the current discourse.

One pole of the dichotomy is the one on which I think I mostly reside. These are people who are committed to reason, empiricism, and natural evidence—those who believe in the complete (or near complete) significance of the real world, the universe, all matter, energy, and laws of science to our lives. We agree that we lack a comprehensive understanding of the universe, but experience (that important empirical component) leads us to expect that studying our world ever more accurately is going to lead us to greater understanding. We atheists are prone to the over-reaching sin of associating this point of view specifically with our position on religion, but I would suggest that there is more to it than that. There are devout Christians who are no less committed to the natural view, even if they do suspend it to some degree when they’re in a church…I can’t hold that against them, since I do the same thing in the bedroom (it’s true, I do worship the Goddess now and then.) Similarly, this view cuts across political lines, too, and some conservatives and liberals respect it, and some reject it.

I need a label, so I’m going to call those people who consider material evidence paramount and regard the real world as a mostly sufficient container of phenomena that define our existence the Naturals. I consider myself one of them, so I think these are the good guys, for the most part; it doesn’t mean that all Naturals are correct in all matters, though, because there are many whose interpretations of evidence I disagree with, and vice versa. All that is important is that we agree that measurement and testing and analysis are the best ways to resolve our differences.

What’s the contra position? There are those who think inspiration and intuition and all the internal imagery of their minds define their external reality; that what they wish to be so will be so if only they can articulate it and select and distort evidence for the purposes of persuasion. What they see is only applicable and interesting if it reinforces their presuppositions, and all else is a lure and a distraction, an illusion that must be disregarded or rationalized to fit into a predetermined explanation. Many religious people are examples: they have a vision of an unseen power that acts on the world, and despite the lack of evidence and frequent contradictions between their beliefs and reality, they insist on interpreting everything as a shadow of something impalpable and unimaginable.

I’m going to call them Unnaturals, plainly enough.

Obvious examples of Unnatural extremism are Pat Robertson and his unfounded belief in a vengeful God who is going kneecap anyone who disagrees with him; the members of the Bush administration who mangled evidence to justify going to war, and decided to ignore the expertise of their generals and prosecute that war with insufficient force; and every creationist on the planet. It should also be obvious that there are ranges of Unnatural activity, and even Pat Robertson uses a spoon to eat his cornflakes rather than praying to God to levitate it into his mouth (I hope. One can’t be entirely sure with Evil Uncle Chuckles.) Strictly speaking, Unnaturalism is an activity or way of thinking, not individuals themselves, although some do do an amazingly consistent job of personifying the principle.

On the other side, we find Rev. Coyne, the Vatican astronomer who dismisses Intelligent Design, who is clearly mostly a Natural supporting science and evolution, but who occasionally tosses out an Unnatural bon mot about his religious beliefs, or Richard Dawkins, who is much more consistent in his commitment to naturalism—but Rev. Coyne and Dawkins probably have more in common in their ideas than they have in opposition.

Where all this is useful is in helping us distinguish useful arguments from Unnatural nonsense, and in characterizing debates rhetorically. For instance, we don’t oppose Ken Ham and Kent Hovind and similar reverend creationists because they are Christians, but because they are Unnatural Christians who defy reasonable Augustinian principles of respecting the evidence of (in their opinion) God’s Creation. We don’t necessarily oppose George W. Bush because he is a Republican politician, but because he practices Unnatural politics, the advocacy of unrealistic goals by impractical means. I’d like to chew out Democrat Tom Harkin for his unnatural support of ‘alternative’ medicine, too, so this isn’t solely a Republican foible.

Anyway, a number of people have falsely assumed that I and other atheists hate religious people. This is not true; instead, we simply despise Unnatural thinking. I’d be more willing to take greater care about avoiding blanket condemnations of the religious if they in turn would be more willing to recognize when their thinking has taken an Unnatural turn, and recognize that Unnatural arguments have absolutely no weight with me, and should have no weight with other rational people.

(crossposted to Pharyngula)

4 Responses to “Naturals and Unnaturals”

  1. DavidByron Says:

    Hmm. I’m not sure if this is quite what you are getting at but it seems to me that you’re slanting this wrong.

    people who are committed to reason, empiricism, and natural evidence—those who believe in the complete (or near complete) significance of the real world, the universe, all matter, energy, and laws of science to our lives

    You’re conflating two different things here. And I think it’s because you are seeing this from a religious point of view but it applies to a larger area than that.

    Your first point is refering to “people who are committed to reason” and you think that means atheism but this isn’t about a particular world view IMO — that’s just a single application and in fact the view you are talking about is held by some people who are religious.

    I would suggest that a better phrase for “natural” would be “evangelist” (in the secular sense).

    There are people who have the confidence of their principles or opinions and engage others in an attempt to convert them or spread their views — certainly using “reason, empiricism, and natural evidence” as you say, because there isn’t any other way unless you are preaching to the converted. You have to speak the comon language of whatever passes as reason between the two of you. These are people who have an answer ready for anyone who wants to know why they believe something. They beleive they have good reasons for their opinions and can back them up. In theory they think other people ought to believe what they believe — although they may have no practical motivation to actually “convert” others.

    On the other hand you have people with opinions that they perhaps haven’t ever really questioned or analysed. They believe things because other people do, or because they always have believed them, because an authority tells them what to believe or otherwise are unable to articulate why their view is to be prefered. It might well be that what they beleive is true — afterall following the crowd is often an efficient decision making tool, especially if the topic is complex and you have no resources to educate yourself about it.

    Someone might be an evangelist about one topic but unable to explain their beliefs on another.

  2. Error 404 Says:

    Or maybe Empiricist vs Platonic.
    There are a number of alternatives to Empiricist - Pragmatist is one, but they come down to beleiving in observed phenomena.

    It is kind of an old argument in theology: if what the Church teaches is in conflict with what is observed, which is considered true? This particular question is the source of Benedict XVI’s objection to John Paul II’s apology about Copernicus. Copernicus wrote that he believed the evidence. B. XVI objects that, while Copernicus may be right scientificaly, he’s taking the evidence of his eyes over the teachings of the Church and so even though the Church distinguishes between science and theology, Copernicus was nevertheless wrong because back then they didn’t, and he rejected the Church’s idea. It is interesting to note that Dante has a specific spot ready for B. XVI (baptismal font, Third Circle) but not one for Copernicus.

  3. Half Sigma Says:

    Liberals and conservatives (at least the Christian type of conservatives) both refuse to acknowledge the science behind evolution.

    Christian opposition to evolution is obvious.

    The left refuses to acknolwedge that basic human traits like intelligence are hereditable. How did we evolve from chimpanzees of intelligence isn’t something that natural selection would select for?

  4. Error 404 Says:

    It’s not so much that intelligence and so forth are not hereditable as that the hereditary component is completely swamped by environmental factors.

    If environmental factors had as much influence on height as they do on learning, you could have identical twins where one grows up to be 3 feet tall and the other 15, and it would not be particularly remarkable.

    Still, if the results of evolutionary psychology research were occasionaly contrary to the political wishes of the researchers, they might be ridiculed less.

    Just a hint, in case you want to be taken seriously: humans did not evolve from chimps, or any other primate that still exists. Monkey’s cousin, not grandson.