Absolutely, this progressive will not vote for Obama
Marginalize me, ostracize me, or whatever, but I refuse to yield the Bill of Rights, the separation of powers or the rule of law to anyone. I swore no oath to defend the Constitution but do so as a matter of conscience and principle, as it’s the only thing at all that makes the US special: our guaranteed freedoms. As I noted earlier today, I’m confused about this ‘love’ some feel that they call patriotism. But there’s not a bit of confusion about the best defense we have against enemies foreign and domestic: it’s the Constitution, stupid.
My principle is this: the federal government’s first and most critical role is to provide for the common defense. Today, they failed to do that. And the biggest threat to this nation is not al-Qaida. It’s political representatives who try to usurp the laws protecting us, because they slowly chip away till there’s nothing left.
As Glenn Greenwald noted earlier today, quoting Lawrence Lessig:
Obama said he would filibuster a FISA bill with Telco Immunity in it. He has now signaled he won’t. When you talk to people close to the campaign about this, they say stuff like: “Come on, who really cares about that issue? Does anyone think the left is going to vote for McCain rather than Obama? This was a hard question. We tried to get it right. And anyway, the FISA compromise in the bill was a good one.”
Damn straight I won’t vote for McCain. But I won’t vote for Obama either. I will vote for a third party candidate and if enough other progressives do, causing an Obama loss? Oh well, too bad, so sad that Obama lacks the spine or wisdom to defend the Constitution. I will look for a McCain surge in the national polling now which will confirm how badly Obama miscalculated.
The difference, for me, is that I won’t relent, even if the ACLU gets the courts to overturn Congress on this bill.
I know which side my freedom’s buttered on.
And let’s get this straight. I remember RFK and JFK. As they became progressives, the Kennedys were my friends. And you, Sir Obama, are no Kennedy. You’re just another weaselly politician trying to put politics above our freedoms.
I haven’t bought a drop of Exxon gasoline since the Exxon Valdez disaster and I won’t relent in my defense of freedom. It’s likely that McCain will make a worse president, but on the most important measure, the two men are exactly the same: wrong and dangerous.
And my conscience affords no room for compromise, period.
Added note: after reviewing the votes, it’s clear we were wrong as progressives, to back several Senators who took down Republican incumbents. The most prominent examples: Webb, Whitehouse, Salazar, McCaskill and Bob Casey. On the other hand, I’m glad to see Jon Tester, Brown, Stabenow and Klobuchar remain steadfast.
I may write-in one of the latter for President. But I won’t be hoodwinked into aiming for a Democratic majority in Congress with the now-disproved notion that they’ll make a difference. They haven’t. And as Blue Dog Dems, they never will.
The GOP is smart enough to respect its base. If the Dems want to take liberals for granted, they have to understand the consequences of doing so. They may be spineless but some of us progressives aren’t.
Ross Perot defined most elected Dems exactly right: members of the Money Party, along with all Republicans.
Barack Obama: you’re an appeaser and a coward and a sellout, a perfect representative of the rot at the core of weakling Dems.
Update: Richard Blair won’t vote Obama. Nor will Jim Henley Thoreau. And Chris Floyd’s prosaic mastery says he’s not gonna either.
Update #2: “Yes We Can’t” might be Obama’s new motto. Or is it “Change We Can Count On To Abandon Us In A Fight”?
July 9th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
[…] Update: Good to know I’m not the only one out here feeling this way. Wednesday, July 9th, 2008 | Reddit reddit_url=’http://allspinzone.com/wp/2008/07/09/fisa-i-can-no-longer-vote-for-barack-obama/’ reddit_title=’FISA: Why I Can No Longer Vote for Barack Obama’ | […]
July 9th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Nice to know I’m not alone in my feelings, Kevin.
July 9th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Are you willing to put up with McCain for 4 to 8 years? Because if you don’t vote for Obama that could happen. Remember what happend in 2000 when people voted for Nader instead of Gore. If that hadn’t happen we would of had Gore instead of Bush. We can’t let that happen again. We need you to vote for Obama this year, we need to change this country. I want my country back and I see the only way that will happen is if we vote for Obama.
July 9th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Yes, Phyllis, that’s a distinct possibility. But I don’t want my country back from one weasel to hand to another. I made my position clear to the Obama campaign and he chose to defend nothing for any American. And I’m not clear at all that McCain would be worse. Once a sellout, you know, can mean always a sellout. And Obama broke my trust, not vice-versa.
July 9th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
Much thanks for the link to UO, though the linked post is by Thoreau rather than me.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
Say it together: Your best choice for candidate will NEVER ALWAYS vote the way you want. Not voting for him might as well be a vote for McCain. Cut off your nose to spite your face. If you don’t vote for him, you are a McCain presidency enabler and NO PROGRESSIVE!
July 9th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
I’m sure you’re you’re wrong, Cotasm, but I understand. I’ve listened to Failed Democratic logic for years, bought the product, found it as unsatisfactory as Brand X.
Sometimes, there are no progressives to vote for. Repeat that a few times. Maybe the logic will overcome the wishful thinking then.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
(a) This is the kind of “our side right or wrong” that I expect from Republicans and Fox News, not Democrats. But, frankly, I’m not surprised.
(b) Pandering to the popular is cheapening. It is indeed a betrayal of trust, however inconvenient that might be for political machinations. Indeed, if Obama and his campaign now believe they are at significant risk of loss without making such major concessions, they should have the courage to say so, thus justifying changing their positions, or, if that’s unacceptable — as it apparently is to many people — to drop out of the race.
(c) Surely, your conclusion assumes the electoral system is good and representative and robust. It’s possible the outcome you fear is to do it as well as to any position taken on Obama. If someone believes that system is corrupt, should they vote for it for the sake of voting, even if no candidate deserves it?
July 9th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
So you’d rather have a McCain president? Thanks a lot! Yes, this Obama vote was WRONG. But this was a (unfortunately) calculated, political move. An Obama presidency will correct this injustice — a McCain presidency, which you seem okay with bringing on with this mindset, will not. EVEN FEINGOLD, who I think is king when it comes to standing up for us constitutionally, thinks we need to get Obama elected to correct this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfBvTudInT0
Please, Kevin. I understand your frustration. But, sleep on it and please come out this November and do your part to make the math such that McCain won’t slide into the White House. In that case, we’re all screwed.
Thanks.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:40 pm
One last comment… Perhaps you guys should check out the Kyle Syndrome: http://tinyurl.com/6mo6zm
There seems to be a lot of that going on (including here), and it will cost us the chance of passing ANY progressive legislation.
July 9th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I don’t have to convince you, Obama, or anyone that my choice is right. I think Obama and McCain matter way, way less than the defense of our freedoms. So the decision is right for me. Kyle predicted doom and gloom and I have no such agenda for a mere election.
I fully expect guys like Obama to win. But while our freedoms are stolen, I have serious doubts whether my grandkids and great grandkids will even have a democracy to be part of.
So let me put it gently: you’re wasting your breath. Flame away if that makes you feel better, but the only person I have to answer to is me… and my conscience.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
So nice to see that there are still Americans who will stand up for their principles and decide that selling them out is not really worthy of a future President. Let’s put it plain and simple - when it comes down to it, what has Obama not changed since he won out over Hillary? He used his fanbase to the max, got where he wanted, and then now seems to no longer need them or indeed care. Too bad so many are making apologies for his actions as if things will really change after he takes office. Heard him today on TV talking about children from immigrant backgrounds and forgfet about them being taught English because they will learn it anyway, but what parents should really be concerned about is making sure their kids are taught Spanish and they become bilingual. Has he mentionned this before or is this the next pander to get the Latino vote he lost to Hillary? Sorry, but for those of us who do follow your elections, and who haven’t been enamored by the pure rhetoric, I hope yopu know what you are actually getting with Obama before he becomes another republican lite candidate.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Cotasm, I’ve a senator - Wyden - that I voted for. I don’t agree with him on everything, but stuff like forest policy isn’t a huge deal, so I vote for him anyway. Obama broke his word. Obama voted to suspend the rule of law. Obama voted to invalidate the constitution. If there are more basic principles in America than the constitution and the rule of law, I’d like to hear about them. We’re not talking Social Security or Universal Health care, we’re talking serious crap here. Basic, fundamental, Patriotic, why our founders split from Britain kind of stuff. Are you starting to see why this isn’t a “hold your nose and vote” kind of moment for some of us?
All those things that you hope and pray Obama will do better than McCain - handle Iran, Supreme Court nominations, on and on. You so sure of that now? Think back a while ago when Obama said, firmly and directly, that we would filibuster ANY bill that gave immunity to telecoms. If I had told you then that Obama would be voting for telecom immunity in a couple of weeks, and stating that allowing warrantless eavesdropping was necessary for national security, I’m guessing you would have called me a liar. Now that your eyes have been opened, let’s look at those other promises again. You believe Obama will have us leaving Iraq in 16 months? I’m betting no. You believe that Obama can’t be goaded into striking Iran? I’m betting no. You see, in light of actions, and not projections of who we would like Obama to be, we start to see that, on the big things, Obama could easily be as big a disaster as McCain.
I’ll deal this the “we only have tow candidates” part later.
July 9th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
I think I’ll withold my opinion near the last day and then decide which candidate advances my causes, satisfies my needs.
McCain, great leader that he is elected not to vote, Obama did. Now, if the courts do overturn this as I suspect they might then Obama avoided a knife fight in a phone booth. If there’s an incident between now and November (and the Bush admin is probably manufacturing one as we speak) Obama would have been toast. I think when the first neocon is indicted for violating the Logan Act based on wiretapped evidence these self-satisfied mofoco’s will will snap their necks when they change their minds about this.
And it be so friggen just!
Kevin Haleck, can’t you smell a Harkonnen plot by the stench it leaves behind?
Look forward to it… I am!
July 9th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
Phaedrus,
Thank you for taking the time to write a very thoughtful response. While I may not agree with all of your arguable points, they did make me think. In the end, I’m still going to pull the level for Obama in November. I couldn’t bear the thought of a McCain presidency. If Obama gets elected, I hope he proves you wrong. If he doesn’t, then I’m the fool. Neither of us have the high ground on saying how that one will turn out yet. Thanks again for your comments… and I do share some of your concerns.
July 9th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Cotasm, you made my night. I’ve getting beat up for this for the last week, called Republican troll and every other name in the book. I’ve really developed a distaste for most Obama supporters - they’re fox news with a (D). I understand your position, and I respect it. I think it’s wrong
I’m working like hell to give you a viable alternative, one that lets me look my kids in the eye after election day.
Cheers
July 9th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
[…] Quandary. […]
July 9th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Kevin, absolutely I respect your decision, and your right to change it later if the “fact’s on the ground” warrant it — or not. What’s not to respect about a man of principle taking a principled stand? Outstanding.
Me, I keep going back to what Voltaire said, that “The Perfect is the enemy of the Good.” I’ll (reluctantly) take the Good over the Unfuckingbelievably Bad — which is the dictionary definition of John McCain and the entire war-mongering corrupt Republican establishment (plus Lieberman and some choice Blue-dogs).
July 9th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
I was an Obama supporter. Emailed his site to tell them to take me off their email list & expressed how pissed off I was at my self for buying into his lies and giving the S.O.B. a freakin’ dime. Hillary, Obama, McCain - all three would throw their grandmother under the bus to get elected. I wouldn’t bother to piss on any of ‘em if they were laying in a ditch burning. A lying sack of shit is a lying sack of shit, be his name Bush, Obama, or Clinton. No hope for This Once Great Nation unless the populace gets mad enough to vote out EVERY single scumbag in office who has 1) supported the war, 2) supported the Patriot Act, 3) not supported the impeachment, trial, & imprisonment of all members of the Bush administration who have broken the law. Pelosi, Reid, Clinton - they’ve all been just as devious & decietful as BushCo.
That’s all I have to say - if you jokers want to keep telling yourselves that Obama is anything other than what he so obviously is - i.e., just another lying sack of shit - if it makes you feel good to believe in that fairy tale, so be it. Just cut the crap of calling those of us who see that this emperor is just as butt-naked as the rest “Republican Trolls”, etc. As the old show used to say - the truth is out there - & the truth is painfully obvious - Obama is just as much “McSame” as McCain.
July 9th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Honestly, I don’t think McCain is McBush/McSame. I used to actually like him. He is very centrist and republicans hate him because they think he is a democrat in disguise.
I really hope all he is doing is pandering to the far right. Yes, perhaps Obama is pandering his ass off but at least McCain doesn’t spout how much he wants to change Washington and then tells everyone he is a different kind of politician all the while voting for bills which stomps all over the Fourth Amendment. A bill which he said he would vote against. Can you honestly say you are 100% sure that Obama wouldn’t have voted for the Iraq war all those years ago?
At least with McCain we get actual experience.
July 9th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Cotasm and Phaedrus,
the important thing here is to make all of us think. I respect the last two comments you made, and hope we can all continue in this vein. No matter what happens, all we have are each other– we’re going to have to hold together to make it through these times.
I too probably won’t vote for Obama. Core constitutional principles are a bright red line in my book. I can be pragmatic, but not about foundational issues such as civil liberties. Still unsure what I’ll do about this dilemma…
July 10th, 2008 at 12:34 am
I really appreciate that the thread has evolved into a civil and thoughtful discussion. I can say that I’ve wrestled with the proper course to achieve the most constructive solutions, ever since Obama announced his position reversal several weeks ago.
Choosing my course, an Obama win now means I’ll be viewed as an opponent, so I’ll be shown little or no consideration by the Obama team or his most ardent supporters. But then, I’m just a citizen. For a couple of hundred years, I’d be completely ignored for taking such a stance, so the existence of the Net has never given me the idea that I wield some extra influence over people than I possessed previously, offline.
Being marginalized I can handle. I can handle name-calling and being thought a fool.
I cannot take such a position lightly with any intent of reversal. Obama could be a wonderful leader in all respects, but it doesn’t change the extraordinarily indefensible position he’s taken on this essential matter of our freedoms. As for an effective way to achieve the preservation of freedom, I admit I cannot know if my choice can accomplish anything.
But I ultimately concluded every other choice was certain to have no effect at all.
Yes, I wholly support what the folks at FDL, C&L, Glenn Greenwald and others are doing to defeat some blue dog Democrats. But I don’t think that suffices to let Obama know he’s crossed a line that none will do without consequence. In Oregon, a former Senator, Wayne Morse, was one of two who opposed the expansion of LBJ’s power with the Gulf of Tonkin resolution. 58,000 dead Americans and at least a million dead Vietnamese later, it was clear that Morse was correct. And despite the futility of his act, he could not go along for the sake of fraternity, consenting to a terrible mistake that would prove far more deadly than any ever suspected.
I have seen two wars against Iraq, propelled by lies with the latter vastly expanding presidential powers close to monarchical levels. Without an effective opposition. Without betrayers and outright criminals punished. And Obama’s position, along with so many in Congress, is to permit such expansions to stand.
To be clear, I should indicate that I opposed the original FISA court creation prior to this president. I oppose the Patriot Act as a sham that has zero to do with patriotism. For more than a decade, I’ve watched these encroachments on our liberties occurring. I’ve watched the same occur for nearly 30 years in the name of the War on Drugs.
I cannot let this one pass either without taking the strongest stance I can within the law. If I could find a way to prevent it using nonviolent civil disobedience, I’d do that, too.
It boils down to having no choice with any better chance to change what has just occurred. It might take months or years or decades, but we must not allow such a precedent to stand. Or, at least, I can’t allow it. Not with future generations hanging in the balance.
It takes years, I suspect, to note how much is lost via slow erosions that many think inconsequential. But the consequences eventually become clear. We are being robbed of our liberties. And Obama and McCain are equals in that theft. Both deserve to lose for their failure to defend the very essence of our country.
July 10th, 2008 at 1:52 am
OBAMA=FAIL
July 10th, 2008 at 6:38 am
Most excellent post and comments too.
Kevin, I admire your stand; but I disagree with you and allow me tell you why.
Earlier, I was struck by Mark’s mention of the founding fathers and of Voltaire; Franklin in particular held him in high regard — no surprise there. I also note Mark’s mention of John Adams who, as President, signed the Alien and Sedition Acts into law, a heinous blot on constitutional history (part of which was still legal in 2008). Despite that, we remember Adams as a giant of the American Revolution, easily Jefferson’s equal. That Adams could be both things — a genius and yet a seriously flawed politician — should give us some insight into the quandaries (and temptations) of leadership in the American system of governance.
So here’s the thing: those of you who want to quit the game at this point are ceding the field to others who take comfort in our disunity. We’ll survive yesterday’s vote — one of many to come — in the Senate. But only if we don’t break apart. Tomorrow the sun will come up again and for many days to come. We’ll get another chance to get it right.
Attention should be paid to Russ Feingold, a champion of civil liberties but also a politician:
July 10th, 2008 at 6:40 am
P.S. sorry for bollixing up the comment format; the preview fooled me. That’s me (not Feingold) quoting Dr. Franklin.
July 10th, 2008 at 7:39 am
It’s not like you’re unaware of any of this:
http://reasonsnottovoteformccain.blogspot.com
sp
July 10th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
[…] Kevin Hayden, 7/10/08, 12:34AM […]
July 10th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
My brother,
For someone who was chiding me two months ago about my caution about Obama, this is quite a turn around.
However, I will, more than likely, be voting for Obama in November.
Do I not care about the FISA bill? No, it is selling the 4th Amendment in the name of political expediency.
Do I think that by changing his vote, he could have pulled enough votes away from the pro-FISA bloc to stop it? No.
Is there a third (or fourth or fifth) party candidate who I think is better than Obama?
Cynthia McKinney? Ralph Nader? Unfortunately, no.
It’s kind of like the old Churchillian quote, “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
Obama is the worst possible candidate, except for all of the others who were running (I was uncomfortable with Edwards, too. He sounded good, but when he was in the Senate, his record was not).
So, like I did in every election that I ever voted in (I was fairly enthused about McGovern, though), I will, unenthusiastically, vote for the Democrat.
However, Kevin, since Oregon isn’t a sure thing for Obama and Massachusetts is, what say we both get absentee ballots and trade off. I’ll vote for Obama in Oregon and you can vote for whomever you like in Massachusetts. You’ll get your protest vote in and I’ll have a vote that might matter.
July 10th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I’m not trading in my Ohio vote for nuttin!
Pander to me, Pander to me. I love it when politicians take me out to Red Lobster!
Not that any have, but I’d love it if they would.
All you guys (especially you Floridians) can just sit this out and let us Buckeyes handle everything.
;-)
July 10th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
[…] In the meantime, I’m not the only one who’s planning to vote for a third-party candidate, or considering renouncing support for Obama. Kevin Hayden at American Street has made it clear he doesn’t plan to vote for Obama; Richard Blair has also outlined why he is not casting his ballot for the Senator from Illinois. […]
July 11th, 2008 at 1:37 am
Oddly enough, it was just Tuesday when I referred to the fact that the sole rationale offered by Obama supporters for his recent shifts in position (FISA was just the most notorious and egregious) is that it’s necessary to get him elected, so we shouldn’t care that much. (As Ara Rubyan said above, “We’ll survive yesterday’s vote — one of many to come….”)
I went on to say that
Which, it seems to me, is exactly what has been seen here. The vast majority of the criticism of Kevin has come down to “you’re going to help McCain win.” Not, significantly, “this is why Obama is such a good candidate that you should support him in spite of your objections,” but “McCain is why you can’t not vote for him.”
Well, for this pie-in-the-sky lefty radical, FISA was a deal-breaker. Yes, I think it’s that important. Because I do not feel I could trust as president anyone who would endorse giving any president - and in Obama’s case, he means himself - that sort of power. Voting for that bill - especially after pledging to help filibuster any bill with immunity and especially after praising the expanded powers as necessary in the “fight against terrorism” - is as far as I’m concerned a disqualification for the office of president.
July 11th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Kevin:
We are being robbed of our liberties. And Obama and McCain are equals in that theft. Both deserve to lose for their failure to defend the very essence of our country.
Well, yes, but … tomorrow is another day.
In other words liberty, and the fight for it, is an ongoing process. Soon, the ACLU will sue to overturn the legislation and it will wind it’s way through the courts. Maybe we’ll luck out and the SCOTUS will strike it down. Stranger things have happened — even with this version of the court.
Better yet: Obama will (hopefully) win and the next Congress may have an opportunity to reverse the legislation as well.
Then there’s the prospect of Atty Gen. Edwards prosecuting every single one of the telcos on criminal charges.
So it’s never “over.”
One thing for sure: FIRST, you need to win the freaking election, or most of what I just said is flushed down the toilet.